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Pedigree Info

How can Pedigree Analysis help my lame horse?
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Genetic Defects

Why is it important to know if your horse has genetic defects?
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Genetics can help with desirable traits too ...
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Genetics are not only useful for detecting genetic diseases and genetic assets
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So at BRIDGEquine .com we have been working hard on the IMM results - People have speculated that Peppy San Badger was positive - I don't like working on speculation and at BRIDGE the goals are to collect enough data to be able to be reasonably sure where testing is not available.  After entering a lot of Peppy San Badger's offspring it would seem very likely he was n/MYHM (Of course one cannot say with 100% certainly unless he was tested).  

There are two main reasons why it seems highly likely he was positive:
1.)Tested and concluded positive offspring numbers:
Remembering that there are not a lot of his offspring tested, what we do see though is that 16 of his daughter's had positive foals, 6 of his offspring were for sure positive
If including the second generation there are more test results and we see 30 had positive foals, and 32 were positive, only 21 nn - the only 21 nn is very telling.   32 positives with only 21 negatives is a very strong case.
If including the 3rd generation there are 52 with positive foals, 61 positive, 57 tested nn again a very strong case. 
2.) Eye witness account that he was almost lost to strangles at one point in his life.  
Also in the early stages Peppy San Badger was labelled as likely PSSM1 positive - with the research we have done it seems very very unlikely that he was P1 positive.   PSSM2 does seem to be on the radar - He sired a lot of buckers and many sons were mean and very hard headed and hard to trajn.

This is a NEW SITE that has been running for a couple of months!  It looks exaclty like the one (except it has a 2023 in the address bar so you know you are on the new site.) but it has brand new software!

If you have an older account and you  have trouble logging in please contact me so I can get you going.

foals@manitobahorse.com

The reports seem to be working now but if you have any trouble please contact me at the above email address.

 

If you see anything that is not working, or links are wrong, or info is wrong, please contact me ASAP.  This upgrade was HUGE deal and I want to get the site working as perfectly as possible but I need your help if you have a problem.

This site is best used on a computer - it is working on cel phones but it is impossible to keep up with all the different phones and operating systems to make sure it is glitch free, however we are trying to make it as phone friendly as we can - if you are having issues on your phone accessing any part of the site please contact us.

 

THANK  YOU!!!

 

 

 

The database is only as good as the info is accurate. 

In an effort to verify pedigrees we ask that, as an AQHA member, if you have purchased any sire or dam details for any AQHA horses and you wouldn't mind sharing them with us - please email to foals@manitobahorse.com with AQHA detail in the subject line.

We are urgently seeking people who would be willing to donate $5 and be able to look up a $5 report at AQHA.
This is an exciting way to help us really start to nail down the source horses for PSSM1.
We have  a list of about 20 key horses we are searching for reports on and you can help with a very small donation of time (takne to get the report) and $5.  Please contact me if you would be willing to help out in this way.

  Messaging Sharalee Worms on facebook is the best form of contact and will get the fastest response.

Gina Gomez Kindscher·Thursday, June 14, 2018
    Over the last few years I have been helping lots of people sort through the enormous amount of information on diet and management of a PSSM horse. Normally when I am helping someone I take a complete history of the horse, its diet, history of tests performed, examine hooves, exercise and management. I have learned that there are some common mistakes being made and perhaps having a list of them might help some new people getting started. I made many of these mistakes myself and had to learn the hard way. Everyone wants to help their horse and we all do the best we can at any given time with the information we have available. There is no consistent information, many vets are not helpful as they continue to put horses on a type 1 diet or even worse recommend the most offensive feeds for any horse. The next time a vet recommends a feed, ask them what is in it and why they recommend it. If they can tell you the ingredients and why it will help your horse then maybe he/she might of actually done some research on that feed, but most could not tell you.

Mistake #1- Feeding several supplements that have the same ingredients, for instance feeding two ration balancers. If you are feeding a complete feed then you cannot add a complete vitamin and mineral supplement. Or if you have a complete feed and it has 1,000 IU of E, make sure you count that toward the total E you plan on giving. I see a lot of people giving huge amounts of a certain nutrient with no knowledge that they are even feeding any. Please become a label reader!

Mistake #2-  If the diet you are feeding is completely wrong and causing your horse to tie up, remove immediately. There is no need to taper down on something that is causing illness in your horse. Many people have a hard time letting go of feeding grain, your horse might need weight, but they don’t need grains to accomplish that.

Mistake #3- When adding new things to the diet starting too fast and adding too many things. If the horse starts to do well or starts to get worse, there is no way of knowing what might have been the problem. Like for instance oil for a type 1, you might end up needing 2 cups per day, but don’t start with 2 cups, might only start with 1/4 cup. There are many triggers that will cause an episode in your horse, just because you started a new supplement 2 days ago and now they are in episode does not mean it’s the supplement. It could be weather change which is a huge trigger, stressful event such as new shoes put on, vaccinations, and dentistry. I recommend making changes during a time when they are at their best and you know there is nothing in the immediate future that could set them off. Of course this will not always be possible, but it’s a good idea if you can.

Mistake #4 – Moving too quickly through changes. Many people get excited if the horse has gone 1-2 weeks with no issues. I would consider a horse more stable after going 4-6 months with no issues. So being patient and letting the body adjust to one change. The waiting is agonizing and sometimes you might have to stop what you are trying. But I always tried at least 2 more times when I failed the first time because of all the other factors that I don’t get to control.

Mistake #5 – Believing manufacturers when they say a feed is low starch or low sugar. PSSM horses do best on a low NSC feed, (non structural carbohydrate) for type 1 around 10% and for type 2 can go a little higher. You have to add starch and sugar to get NSC values. So a feed Mfg. will say low starch which may be true but they did not add the sugar. If a feed is low NSC it will most the time be proud of that fact and list it on the label. A feed without guaranteed analysis is not a feed I would want to use. Again look at ingredients, if first things listed are oats, barley, wheat, rice brans then it’s a high sugar feed. Please note that almost all feeds these days have soy. I ask over and over again does your horse eat soy and I get the answer NO, but they tell me the feed and it’s a soy based feed.

Mistake #6 – Believing that all fats are created equal. Fat is fat when it comes to calories and the ability to be used for energy. But some like rice bran are high in sugars and that might not work for your horse. Then something like chia seeds have many health benefits which to me makes more sense to use then say corn oil. Please refer to the “Fats and Oils” article in the files section on the facebook group listed at the bottom of this article.

Mistake #7 – For a horse diagnosed with type 2 which would include P2,P3,P4, P5. Feeding too much protein when there is no muscle weakness or muscle loss. Type 2 is adult onset disease. If a diagnosis was made prior to the onset of any real symptoms then adding lots and lots of protein and amino acids is not necessarily the right answer. All horses need a balanced diet that would include the 3 limiting amino acids, however adding any more should be done slowly over time and only as needed. So if you were already feeding and alfalfa and grass hay diet and your horse is doing well, might not need to make any change whatsoever. But being aware that any trauma or illness might cause some muscle loss is very helpful.

Article Written by Gina Gomez Kindscher
If you need help with your PSSM horse please join Gina's facebook page:
Managing PSSM, RER and other muscle disease.

FAQ for Newcomers!

What are symptoms of PSSM?

Symptoms of PSSM are often basic horse behaviors - the difference with a PSSM horse is they do them predictably and consistenlly.  Examples would be biting at the cinch/girth, getting antsy when tightening the cinch/girth, throwing the head up when tightening the cinch/girth.  All of these behaviours can easily be the result of poor saddling technique, poor saddle fit, and learned habits from old BUT with a PSSM horse you can try on saddles til the cows come home and you will see little improvement.

Other Symptoms include intermittent lameness, difficulty holding up back feet for the farrier, a Jekyl and Hyde type of personality (perfect one day and nasty the next) bucking, trouble holding leads, crossfiring, acting colicky and many more.  Again many of these are common horse behaviours, but a warning bell should go off if you can't train them out of it and there seems to be no real reason for the behavior.

How is it dignosed? 

There are genetic tests available to confirm or deny your suspicions.  You can pull hair and test for P1 and PSSM2 variants: P2, P3, P4, P8, and K1 - the P2-K1 tests are not peer reviewed and there are a lot of people who discount the results of those tests but there are an overwhelming number of people who have had the PSSM2 variant tests and have found the answers they needed to help their horse based on the test results.  Some people prefer muscle biopsies but muscle biopsies cannot give a definitive answer other than saying what is seen in the muscle at the time of biopsy.  Some have been diagnosed as having PSSM2 via a muscle biopsy and then a couple months later with a new biopsy been declared not to have PSSM2.

There are other genetic conditions (testable via hair sample) other than PSSM that can cause similar symptoms - these include MH, IMM, RER (tested as PX as an indicator) and even HYPP.  All of the above (including PSSM) are what are known as dominant defects and only need one copy from one parent to exhibit symptoms.  In most cases a double positive horse will have more severe symptoms.

Could my 8 year old horse have PSSM?  He has never shown any signs before hand.

Yes, Most definitely.  Especially the PSSM2 variants and RER which often only show symptoms after 6 years old.

How can I decide what to test for?

IF you are planning to breed, test for everything unless both parents are nn for any particular issue, that issue you do not need to test for.
IF you are wondering about symptoms your horse is having, start with the pedigree.  More and more info is coming to light every day.  If there is PSSM or something else in your horse's background then test for that issue.  With pedigree analysis you can often rule out many things and target your testing so you are not wasting smoney on test you don't need.  eg.  Should you 5 panel test your horse?  IF breeding yes.  If just trying to diagnose - then HERDA and GBED are not an issue as the symptoms for HERDA are very obvious and double positive GBED foals don't live.  One copy of HERDA or GBED does not affect the horse.  MH and HYPP bloodlines are known so can be ruled out via pedigree analysis.  So instead of spending over $80 you can spend $40 and just test for PSSM1.

What can I do once I know my results?

My best recommendation is the facebook group called PSSM FORUM.  You will find very good advice from people who have horses with these variants and what has worked for treating them.  Often vets are behind on this information.  If your vet is knowledgable, by all means be thankful and follow his advice!

 

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